once again you do not seem sarcastic, and in a conversation as grounded as this it is often times undermining your own arguments if you utilize sarcasm to make a point. i do use my brain which is why i type in a structured format.please, please just use your brain! you really don't seem to understand sarcasm once again, and you write like this is a business deal
why have more players been leaving invadedlands
- Thread starter kingami3282
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Okay, I see you need this explained further!
(1) You told her you wanted proof, and she is saying things without proof, and that is true, but you asked her where her proof is. And yes she is wrong on this one slightly. Also where is your proof that the staff are not hurting peopleâŠ? Why should I believe you that staff are all correct and kind when Iâve seen and been told of staff harassing players, if your going to say they are kind and make mistakes Iâll believe you in fact they are kind, but they have a âPopularity systemâ those who are popular and defend the staff always get what they want if they need help because of players, those who are not âpopularâ .. donât generally get help from staff, I got this from experience and people telling me, I have no proof of this that itâs a popularity system but sure seems like one.
(2) Okay, your right you never said she couldnât make mistakes, but your pointing out how she was wrong about a specific subject and I quoted your own words.
(3) That was actually a typo right their I ment to say âBut peoples mental health issues arenât staffs problems, etc etcâ soo yes that was my bad for the typo, if they didnât want it to be invited into the community theyâd try to help the person. Oh theyâre not stuck up? You clearly have not seen staff.
(4) a civil matter? Youâre being overly protective over staff, and can clearly not let this server go, itâs made you too addicted, and if youâd go this far to defend staff you clearly are some defender or something.
(5) Yes, I already agreed with you griefing is not the end of the world, and their will be a reset, so I actually agree with you on this one
(6) Yes, for mental health, mental health therapists are not going to hurt or tell your information, but like just placing your trust in someone youâve never met before even if they are âtrustworthyâ itâs still hard to trust someone youâve just met, also it is not ridiculous some things donât help you forever, and itâs just good for the moment, then you lose sanity again, and go to therapy again and again until things get better, but itâs harder than you think for some people to open up to someone new. Not everyone has an easy time with therapy etc.
(7) Do you have proof that she has spied on staff? Maybe she was just trying to get proof for people like you, who want âproofâ âproofâ âproofâ, also the fact that she doesnât have any evidence maybe she is not sharing it all? Maybe it has happened but she would not like to ruin their reputation? Maybe she is a decent person who cares about peoples reputation? Maybe she doesnât have it but expects a less judge mental society who might believe her? Maybe she uses a family computer and canât get as much evidence as youâd like? Maybe sheâs done with drama and just skipped proof? Maybe she doesnât want to share it with anyone?
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Hmmm, wouldnât say sheâs fully losing I think some people are equally wrong on some things and equally right on some.
There really is not anything wrong with defending staff.
There really isnât but he is saying he isnât, so Iâm just telling him even if itâs not a big deal.
Okay so the 'problem' in my eyes, is Staff. They do A LOT of usefull stuff really, but they spend even more time (from what i see) doing useless stuff, and true, I don't see what they do in /vanish. but it doesnt seem to be their job. there was this guy, I genuilly don't remember his name, but he used shop signs to scam people he ended up getting over 43b from this, many players quit, and many were really really sad because they lost all the money that they worked for. And rn ur probably wondering how this is staff's fault right? well, it took them 3 weeks to ban him. NOT A SINGLE PERSON got their money back, and he only got banned for 2 WEEKS. If staff just, idk LOOKED ON THE FORUMS or just LISTEND to the players then maybe he woul've been banned within 4 days. and a lot of people would've kept their money. when confronted about mistakes like this SOMEHOW Staff ends up blaming the player. ''the evidence isn't good enough'' ''we can't rely on playerstatements''. I do understand the second one, if 3 people tell you all the same thing then yes it might be fake, BUT WHEN 20 PEOPLE tell you you made a mistake? then maybe listening would be nice. BUT NO, instead the player gets blamed ontop of everything they might be going trough. ''you only see your own reality'' ''you always want to be right'' (litterly the point of a debate). this is what they told me, it might be a little bit true, but they acted like i murderd someone. and tbh i felt really really bad about myself there. They do this to a lot of players, i actually tested this theory, i asked 25 players what they thought of staff, and guess what? 80% OF THE PEOPLE were showing signs of strong hate towards staff. (5 were just ok/good, 20 were hate) now, I don't think 80% of the players actually hate staff, i only asked 25 people after all, but isnt it a coincedence? now i don't think that ~80% would all have the same lie. if there is this much hate, then staff must be doing something wrong. Multiple posts have been made about ''calling out staff'' for what they are doing wrong, and guess what? NO REPLIES. just a ''
'' from a staff member on msgs where people defend them. the first ACTUAL reply came on the post i made, asking very nicely if MAYBE something could change, I had no reply for a very long time, until Smoke eventually said in survival chat: ''just make a post about it if its that serious''. so i said i already did, but didn't get a responce, AND THIS GUY SAYS ''no you did not''. This shows that a staff member (former staff member now) didn't actually check if they were right, they just convince themselves that they are. No wthis is only like a really small part and its gonna take like an hour to type EVERYTHING out, but i said ''give me 30 minutes'' so this is some of the important stuff. In case you don't get what this has to do with mental health problems: everyone has something bad in their life, and sometimes that thing gets worse and/or more bad things get added to it, this can result in depression and even suicidal toughts. Getting dismissed like this is likely another bad thing, you get scammed and lose everything you worked for, you go to staff thinking you will get help. But then you just end up hearing ''sorry we can't help you'' without any reason or you just get compleetly ignored. I belive that this might be a factor for people on Invaded.
edit: I do not give any evidence of these mental health problems because people trusted me to keep their deepsest secrets, and i'm not just exposing them because you don't belive me and want to be some kind of hero.
'' from a staff member on msgs where people defend them. the first ACTUAL reply came on the post i made, asking very nicely if MAYBE something could change, I had no reply for a very long time, until Smoke eventually said in survival chat: ''just make a post about it if its that serious''. so i said i already did, but didn't get a responce, AND THIS GUY SAYS ''no you did not''. This shows that a staff member (former staff member now) didn't actually check if they were right, they just convince themselves that they are. No wthis is only like a really small part and its gonna take like an hour to type EVERYTHING out, but i said ''give me 30 minutes'' so this is some of the important stuff. In case you don't get what this has to do with mental health problems: everyone has something bad in their life, and sometimes that thing gets worse and/or more bad things get added to it, this can result in depression and even suicidal toughts. Getting dismissed like this is likely another bad thing, you get scammed and lose everything you worked for, you go to staff thinking you will get help. But then you just end up hearing ''sorry we can't help you'' without any reason or you just get compleetly ignored. I belive that this might be a factor for people on Invaded.edit: I do not give any evidence of these mental health problems because people trusted me to keep their deepsest secrets, and i'm not just exposing them because you don't belive me and want to be some kind of hero.
I've never claimed for staff to be correct or fully good, I don't think i'd need proof of staff being good people as the fact they are is because of an absence of proof saying otherwise? To my experience there isn't such a thing as a popularity system. Infernal got denied for staff and claims to be "one of the more popular players on the server", so if that's the case, how wasn't she accepted? To my experience I don't see there being a popularity system from staff towards players, and I find it baffling that you say this because it's very harming to the way people view staff and how they operate, when you don't know how they operate because, you aren't a staff member.
Yes because she was wrong about that specific subject and there's multiple studies to prove my arguments.
Right, peoples' mental health issues indeed aren't staff's problems. I don't get your point here? You're just agreeing with me but saying that you disagree lmao
I don't think it's your responsibility nor right to diagnose me with an addiction, and I find this to be a pretty offensive claim that you make. I'm not addicted to this server, in fact i only play when my friends play, and even then i don't always join them. I also don't think i'm overprotective of staff as I can see that they can definitely improve on multiple different things, I'm just trying to make clear that the points you are making are obsolete and irrevelant, in a way that it isn't the staffs responsibility.
I'm a licensed therapist in the Netherlands. Yes, it is hard to place your trust in someone you haven't met before, but that's why therapy often is a thing that people go to long term, because mental health related problems aren't just fixed like that, they need time, realization, reflection and lots and lots of thinking in the base of it all, among other things that would make this argument way too long. I don't know whether you're speaking from experience or not, but if it is your personal experience I'm sorry to hear that, seems like you've had a rough time with therapy. I still recommend you to seek professional help because "losing sanity again" is something that nobody likes to go through, and a therapist can help if you let them in on your story and actually try things they recommend instead of giving up because the first thing they told you didn't work.
I'll admit i interpreted what diamondgirl said wrong on that point and i apologize for that. Still you dont need to spy on staff because you can simply just install something like medal
i see your point tbhOkay so the 'problem' in my eyes, is Staff. They do A LOT of usefull stuff really, but they spend even more time (from what i see) doing useless stuff, and true, I don't see what they do in /vanish. but it doesnt seem to be their job. there was this guy, I genuilly don't remember his name, but he used shop signs to scam people he ended up getting over 43b from this, many players quit, and many were really really sad because they lost all the money that they worked for. And rn ur probably wondering how this is staff's fault right? well, it took them 3 weeks to ban him. NOT A SINGLE PERSON got their money back, and he only got banned for 2 WEEKS. If staff just, idk LOOKED ON THE FORUMS or just LISTEND to the players then maybe he woul've been banned within 4 days. and a lot of people would've kept their money. when confronted about mistakes like this SOMEHOW Staff ends up blaming the player. ''the evidence isn't good enough'' ''we can't rely on playerstatements''. I do understand the second one, if 3 people tell you all the same thing then yes it might be fake, BUT WHEN 20 PEOPLE tell you you made a mistake? then maybe listening would be nice. BUT NO, instead the player gets blamed ontop of everything they might be going trough. ''you only see your own reality'' ''you always want to be right'' (litterly the point of a debate). this is what they told me, it might be a little bit true, but they acted like i murderd someone. and tbh i felt really really bad about myself there. They do this to a lot of players, i actually tested this theory, i asked 25 players what they thought of staff, and guess what? 80% OF THE PEOPLE were showing signs of strong hate towards staff. (5 were just ok/good, 20 were hate) now, I don't think 80% of the players actually hate staff, i only asked 25 people after all, but isnt it a coincedence? now i don't think that ~80% would all have the same lie. if there is this much hate, then staff must be doing something wrong. Multiple posts have been made about ''calling out staff'' for what they are doing wrong, and guess what? NO REPLIES. just a ''
edit: I do not give any evidence of these mental health problems because people trusted me to keep their deepsest secrets, and i'm not just exposing them because you don't belive me and want to be some kind of hero.
Hahaha, je bent dus Nederlands, wat een toeval!
dus jij bent een therapeut zeg je? dan zou je toch juist net moeten weten hoe lastig het kan zijn om met andere te praten voor mensen met depresie? of je liegt of je bent net begonen of je bent gewoon niet goed in je vak. dat mensen met depressie niet graag erover praten is gewoon common sence? ik snap je niet ''ik verdedig staff niet'' ''maar staff is heel aardig'' ''hun doen zo'n dingen niet''. Beetje tegenstrijdig he.
Okay, Iâm glad you see my point on some things, and no I have not had a hard time with therapy, but other people have but I wonât talk about that. Anyway, this is all I have to say really and I have given some things youâve said thought, and I do partially agree but again you are wrong on a lot too.
it would really help your case if you had literally any evidence of anything happening, even a single ign would help cause seeing you identify all these "people" as "someone i know" and "this guy" just makes it sound like ur making stuff upOkay so the 'problem' in my eyes, is Staff. They do A LOT of usefull stuff really, but they spend even more time (from what i see) doing useless stuff, and true, I don't see what they do in /vanish. but it doesnt seem to be their job. there was this guy, I genuilly don't remember his name, but he used shop signs to scam people he ended up getting over 43b from this, many players quit, and many were really really sad because they lost all the money that they worked for. And rn ur probably wondering how this is staff's fault right? well, it took them 3 weeks to ban him. NOT A SINGLE PERSON got their money back, and he only got banned for 2 WEEKS. If staff just, idk LOOKED ON THE FORUMS or just LISTEND to the players then maybe he woul've been banned within 4 days. and a lot of people would've kept their money. when confronted about mistakes like this SOMEHOW Staff ends up blaming the player. ''the evidence isn't good enough'' ''we can't rely on playerstatements''. I do understand the second one, if 3 people tell you all the same thing then yes it might be fake, BUT WHEN 20 PEOPLE tell you you made a mistake? then maybe listening would be nice. BUT NO, instead the player gets blamed ontop of everything they might be going trough. ''you only see your own reality'' ''you always want to be right'' (litterly the point of a debate). this is what they told me, it might be a little bit true, but they acted like i murderd someone. and tbh i felt really really bad about myself there. They do this to a lot of players, i actually tested this theory, i asked 25 players what they thought of staff, and guess what? 80% OF THE PEOPLE were showing signs of strong hate towards staff. (5 were just ok/good, 20 were hate) now, I don't think 80% of the players actually hate staff, i only asked 25 people after all, but isnt it a coincedence? now i don't think that ~80% would all have the same lie. if there is this much hate, then staff must be doing something wrong. Multiple posts have been made about ''calling out staff'' for what they are doing wrong, and guess what? NO REPLIES. just a ''
edit: I do not give any evidence of these mental health problems because people trusted me to keep their deepsest secrets, and i'm not just exposing them because you don't belive me and want to be some kind of hero.
This guy is SmokePVP and i'm not throwing my friends and random people who support me under the bus because you guys want names
I don't think any of us can make an argument about what staff does in /vanish as nobody legit knows. It's so funny to me that you make this point because how can you say anything about staff in /vanish when you don't even know if there's any staff online in /vanish? You simply don't know, neither do I, neither does anybody that isn't a staff member. So this point is just invalid.Okay so the 'problem' in my eyes, is Staff. They do A LOT of usefull stuff really, but they spend even more time (from what i see) doing useless stuff, and true, I don't see what they do in /vanish. but it doesnt seem to be their job. there was this guy, I genuilly don't remember his name, but he used shop signs to scam people he ended up getting over 43b from this, many players quit, and many were really really sad because they lost all the money that they worked for. And rn ur probably wondering how this is staff's fault right? well, it took them 3 weeks to ban him. NOT A SINGLE PERSON got their money back, and he only got banned for 2 WEEKS. If staff just, idk LOOKED ON THE FORUMS or just LISTEND to the players then maybe he woul've been banned within 4 days. and a lot of people would've kept their money. when confronted about mistakes like this SOMEHOW Staff ends up blaming the player. ''the evidence isn't good enough'' ''we can't rely on playerstatements''. I do understand the second one, if 3 people tell you all the same thing then yes it might be fake, BUT WHEN 20 PEOPLE tell you you made a mistake? then maybe listening would be nice. BUT NO, instead the player gets blamed ontop of everything they might be going trough. ''you only see your own reality'' ''you always want to be right'' (litterly the point of a debate). this is what they told me, it might be a little bit true, but they acted like i murderd someone. and tbh i felt really really bad about myself there. They do this to a lot of players, i actually tested this theory, i asked 25 players what they thought of staff, and guess what? 80% OF THE PEOPLE were showing signs of strong hate towards staff. (5 were just ok/good, 20 were hate) now, I don't think 80% of the players actually hate staff, i only asked 25 people after all, but isnt it a coincedence? now i don't think that ~80% would all have the same lie. if there is this much hate, then staff must be doing something wrong. Multiple posts have been made about ''calling out staff'' for what they are doing wrong, and guess what? NO REPLIES. just a ''
edit: I do not give any evidence of these mental health problems because people trusted me to keep their deepsest secrets, and i'm not just exposing them because you don't belive me and want to be some kind of hero.
Right but the fact it was such a big scam, 43b as you claim, might've made it a more complicated issue. I've spoken to some of the players that have been scammed by this person, and they have first hand told me they have gotten their money back.
I havent seen any proof of any staff member blaming a player, as the arguments "The evidence isn't good enough" and "We cannot take action based on player statements" are actually signs of the staff members doing a really good job and not letting any opinion influence their decision making and their enforcement of the server's rules. In my opinion, this is a positive thing and should be celebrated.
I never once said you only see your own reality or just want to be right. I also do not believe this is the sole point of a debate, a debate should be about voicing opinions about a subject, you don't have to agree on everything and I doubt we will.
Of a server with a playerbase of over 29 thousand people in the discord, i don't think 25 people is a good survey group to decide any "public opinion". Let alone of something as crucial to the server as the staff team, as most likely every single player on the server and member of the discord has a different experience, good and bad.
Most of the posts i've seen "calling out staff" are just all talk instead of providing substantial feedback with a structured format of informing staff both of what needs to be changed, and a possible suggestion on how to change said thing.
You mention Smoke, although he isn't currently a staff member and hasn't been for a while at this point. I think making a point including an old staff member that isn't one anymore, is once again kind of obsolete as clearly this shouldn't be an issue anymore.
I don't think they convince themselves they are right, they simply enforce their interpretation of the server's rules and these are mostly on the same line for the team, to my experience at least. The fact that you say that, is kind of absurd to me because you mentioned that you feel the need to constantly be right in a debate because "thats the point of a debate".
Also, just to point out:
usefull â useful
genuilly â genuinely
woul've â would've
listend â listened
responce â response
compleetly â completely
wthis â this
coincedence â coincidence
ontop â on top
litterly â literally
murderd â murdered
belive â believe
toughts â thoughts
I get what youâre saying about /vanish none of us actually know what staff are doing there. My point is just that from a playerâs view, we canât really see anything, so it can feel like big problems arenât being handled fast enough.
If some people did get their money back from the scam, then thatâs good, but it wasnât really made clear. From the outside, it just looked like it took a long time and nothing happened, which is why people got frustrated.
I understand that staff canât just trust player statements, but when a lot of people report the same thing and it feels like theyâre being ignored, it gets annoying even if the decision is fair.
The survey I did wasnât meant to represent everyone, just to show that some players are unhappy. And with forum posts, even a simple reply explaining things would help, because right now it kind of feels like feedback is ignored.
Iâm not saying staff are bad, just that communication and response time could be better.
If some people did get their money back from the scam, then thatâs good, but it wasnât really made clear. From the outside, it just looked like it took a long time and nothing happened, which is why people got frustrated.
I understand that staff canât just trust player statements, but when a lot of people report the same thing and it feels like theyâre being ignored, it gets annoying even if the decision is fair.
The survey I did wasnât meant to represent everyone, just to show that some players are unhappy. And with forum posts, even a simple reply explaining things would help, because right now it kind of feels like feedback is ignored.
Iâm not saying staff are bad, just that communication and response time could be better.
Ik ben inderdaad een therapeut, en ik weet hoe lastig het is om zoiets te doen, om over je problemen te praten wanneer je denkt dat er niemand meer is die je begrijpt. Toch denk ik dat therapie, al helemaal in de meeste ontwikkelde landen, best bereikbaar is en makkelijk om aan te vragen. Ik verdedig inderdaad staff niet, en ik heb nooit gezegd dat staff specifiek heel aardig is. Ik zeg alleen dat ik niet per se vervelende ervaringen heb met staff.
I did get scammed by that one guy for 3b but I didn't have any suicidal thoughts because of it.Okay so the 'problem' in my eyes, is Staff. They do A LOT of usefull stuff really, but they spend even more time (from what i see) doing useless stuff, and true, I don't see what they do in /vanish. but it doesnt seem to be their job. there was this guy, I genuilly don't remember his name, but he used shop signs to scam people he ended up getting over 43b from this, many players quit, and many were really really sad because they lost all the money that they worked for. And rn ur probably wondering how this is staff's fault right? well, it took them 3 weeks to ban him. NOT A SINGLE PERSON got their money back, and he only got banned for 2 WEEKS. If staff just, idk LOOKED ON THE FORUMS or just LISTEND to the players then maybe he woul've been banned within 4 days. and a lot of people would've kept their money. when confronted about mistakes like this SOMEHOW Staff ends up blaming the player. ''the evidence isn't good enough'' ''we can't rely on playerstatements''. I do understand the second one, if 3 people tell you all the same thing then yes it might be fake, BUT WHEN 20 PEOPLE tell you you made a mistake? then maybe listening would be nice. BUT NO, instead the player gets blamed ontop of everything they might be going trough. ''you only see your own reality'' ''you always want to be right'' (litterly the point of a debate). this is what they told me, it might be a little bit true, but they acted like i murderd someone. and tbh i felt really really bad about myself there. They do this to a lot of players, i actually tested this theory, i asked 25 players what they thought of staff, and guess what? 80% OF THE PEOPLE were showing signs of strong hate towards staff. (5 were just ok/good, 20 were hate) now, I don't think 80% of the players actually hate staff, i only asked 25 people after all, but isnt it a coincedence? now i don't think that ~80% would all have the same lie. if there is this much hate, then staff must be doing something wrong. Multiple posts have been made about ''calling out staff'' for what they are doing wrong, and guess what? NO REPLIES. just a ''
edit: I do not give any evidence of these mental health problems because people trusted me to keep their deepsest secrets, and i'm not just exposing them because you don't belive me and want to be some kind of hero.
I'd argue that when staff aren't vanished they're doing their job less because they're constantly interacting with players because they keep saying random stuff to staff in public chat. Staff members can't fully moderate the server if they aren't in vanish.
If you weren't a victim of the scamming, there's no need for you to be involved in a situation like that in any way. Literally zero reason to get involved if you weren't the one being scammed.
Still even this can be false. A whole entire part of the server can just blatantly lie about someone, and as long as they have the same opinion and story it'll be "the truth", right? How much of your opinion has been influenced by the words of diamondgirl?
They don't need to reply to anything, they don't owe players anything. As long as the server is running, and the staff members have found a solution for this, then the problem is fixed, no?
Right, sure, the communication could be better, but they don't owe anybody anything.
first of all i litterly said ''I don't know what they do in vanish'', read more carefully, and its not rlly a point, its a little intro. I didn't even tell you the persons name and you claim to have talked to the 'victems'? I did not get my 2b back and rosy not her 20b and Red not his (idk i think it was like 5b) last time i checked. wait wtf? you want to celebrate staff not giving a sh!t about players. gosh ur crazy
. if multiple people tell me i'm being annoying then i try to stop being annoying even if i think i'm not. Its a very important thing to listen to others, some are better at it then others and apperently don't have the abbilety at all. again, read more carefully, thats what staff told me. you do understand that a debate is about convincing the public/jury/opponent? the whole point is that you defend you opinion. also you say 29k people on the discord server, but how many of those people actually play on Invaded? last time i checked there weren't even 150 people. The posts about ''calling out staff'' are litterly players telling staff what they are doing wrong and coming up with solution, even if staff ignores them they still try to help. Well i never got any kind of appolegie and it happend when Smoke WAS staff. even if people quit a job a record will still be hold and they can still get into an investegation. Otherwise people could do pretty bad things and just quit their job to avoid it. I don't remember any staff member ANY staff member ever telling someone ''you are right'' or anything along the lines of that. And if they do there is always a ''But you.... etc) and why are you correcting my spelling mistakes exactly?LMAO
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